Friday, May 15, 2009

Anger in Action: The politics of “fathers’ rights” in Canada

The following are comments left at http://briarpatchmagazine.com/2009/05/01/fathers-rights-in-canada/ discussing a very one sided gender feminist approach disavowing the civil rights of fathers. Please also note the author, Deanna Ogle, has invented a new form of equality. Equal is not equal because there is more than one kind. Now dads you can better understand why there is this quagmire out there when you get rationalizations such as this. Read how to split the apple equally - or not - and then if you don't upchuck after that have a good chuckle. The gender feminists just don't get it. Karl Marx would love it though as Marxists can rationalize almost anything that involves collectivist thoughts. I guess when Adam took the bite of Eve's Apple he bit off far more than he could chew and it was more than equal because, according to the Bible, it changed the world. The apple is being used again by women to tease men. We are so weak! ;)

I see you have visited all the gender feminist web sites to do your research and used it to support your ideologically predisposed notion that women are an under class of victims requiring special status from the nanny state.

The arguments do not stand up to scrutiny or science. 75% of divorces in Canada are initiated by women. Very few of them are related to DV. Most are related to ethereal visions of greener pastures brought on by dreamy magazine articles, romantic books and movies and hormonal surges that never come to pass. The relative poverty placed upon children as a result is based on very bad decisions by women and then supported by the courts. Check the statistics for children who become social problems and their relationship to single motherhood homes.

In fact your whole notion of DV being a one sided gender issue with women as victims does not stand scrutiny at all. In a Centre for Disease Control study women were found to be initiators 71% of the time. In all categories of DV it is pretty much equal between genders yet men are excluded from every tax supported DV shelter in Canada. That is part of the gender apartheid contributed by articles such as this.

The longer you try to inculcate these myths the longer will the struggle be for true equality. The equality you and others of your ilk seek is already there but your ideology prevents you from seeing it. Real women have found it. Gender feminists are ideologically and perceptually blinded by it. You cannot ever expect to be equal by constantly pulling the victim card. Get over it, grow up and move on.

These following observations were left on May 15/09 in response to A DV Industry person spouting more mythology. All of these comments on the web site follow the excerpt below:

at 8:14 am May 15/09

MikeMurphy

I guess Shahnaz S lives in a feminist bubble and deals with “reported” DV. Men only report about 10% of the time so you won’t find stats from the police on them in proportion to their being battered and abused. When women kill their partners it is often not recorded as DV. Recently Adam Cunningham died from wounds received at the hands of his wife Ellie in Vancouver. The Crown was even wondering if they should proceed with charges given the death of the only witness. I have been in contact with the BC AG to disabuse him of the notion a gender discount is in order. In Edmonton a similar situation occurred recently where a drug addicted woman punched out her partner who fell to the ground and he was kicked further by this woman. He died later in hospital. This will not be recorded as DV. She got 6.5 months for killing a man.

Shahnaz S uses the old canard of children watching DV perpetrated by a dad but neglects to say, given DV is pretty much equal, what the impact is on the children when mom is punching, throwing objects, cursing, yelling, screaming at the top of her lungs, pulls out 4.5 foot rake handles and tries to kill dad, and hits him over the head with a 10 lb jug of water amongst other things. Indeed mom frequently in front of the children when dad is not around denigrates him to alienate the children and create allies creating greater emotional abuse.

You live in a feminist bubble and are in denial. You are ideologically and perceptually blinded by what likely is going on right under your nose. That makes you far less than professional. How many female addicts do you deal with? They are some of the worst bullies on the face of the earth to both their partners and children? They go to the DV shelter to dry out before going back to do more drugs and commit more DV. Some even commit crimes to get money for the drugs while at the shelter. Some do tricks to supplement their habit then go back to the shelter after getting the money and a fix. They feed off the self abuse of their own bodies and take it out on others.

I often hear the term “protective” parent used by the radical feminists in reference to the mom. Statistically the single mother is the most dangerous person to supervise children. You can check the USA stats here. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/stats_research/index.htm. Mothers are the greatest abusers and killers of children by far in the USA and the greatest killers of children, in partnership with their boyfriends in Australia.

Its time to drop the victim persona and be real women. DV is not a single gender issue it is a family issue. Until it is recognized as such not much will change. Until these shelters start treating men not much will change. You practice a form of gender apartheid and a backlash is starting to be felt across the nation.

The federal public service is now 55% female and the Ontario Public Service close to 60%. The pendulum has swung way to far in terms of feminist instigated entitlements and it needs to stop. I am in the forefront of bringing the pendulum back to the centre instead of marginalizing fathers and ridiculing men with feminist mythology as appears in the article and in Shahnaz S post.

MJM

By Deanna Ogle
Briarpatch Magazine
May/June 2009

I first heard about fathers’ rights groups when I was working at a Vancouver drop-in centre for women several years ago. A family law advocate for a similar organization in a neighbouring community told me about a group of men who would show up at court in matching T-shirts to support male members of their organization who were engaged in custody and access disputes with their ex-partners. The groups would do this to try to influence the judges and intimidate the women, who were often there without a lawyer or any other support besides the advocate. Concerned, I wondered how organized these men were and if it was a local phenomenon. To my surprise, I learned that this group was part of a global movement with a membership ranging from Caribbean Canadian Senator Anne Cools to British anti-poverty activist Bob Geldof (though the vast majority of fathers’ rights leaders and activists are white, middle-class, conservative men) Click here for rest of article. http://briarpatchmagazine.com/2009/05/01/fathers-rights-in-canada/

I see you have visited all the gender feminist web sites to do your research and used it to support your ideologically predisposed notion that women are an under class of victims requiring special status from the nanny state.

The arguments to not stand up to scrutiny or science. 75% of divorces in Canada are initiated by women. Very few of them are related to DV. Most are related to ethereal visions of greener pastures brought on by dreamy magazine articles, romantic books and movies and hormonal surges that never come to pass. The relative poverty placed upon children as a result is based on very bad decisions by women and then supported by the courts. Check the statistics for children who become social problems and their relationship to single motherhood homes.

In fact your whole notion of DV being a one sided gender issue with women as victims does not stand scrutiny at all. In a Centre for Disease Control; study women were found to be initiators 71% of the time. In all categories of DV it is pretty much equal between genders yet men are excluded from every tax supported DV shelter in Canada. That is part of the gender apartheid contributed by articles such as this.

The longer you try to inculcate these myths the longer will the struggle be for true equality. The equality you and others of your ilk seek is already there but your ideology prevents you from seeing it. Real women have found it. Gender feminists are ideologically and perceptually blinded by it. You cannot ever expect to be equal by constantly pulling the victim card. Get over it, grow up and move on.

Your quote:-
“According to Bruce Wood, “there are lots of men (as there are women) who are full of grief, anger, sadness and shock after a relationship comes to an end. These men deserve to be heard and to be helped heal - not to have their anger fed like a fire for political lobbying purposes.”
This is precisely what feminist groups have been doing for years now. The political purpose is clearly stated in their own manifesto ‘ to destroy the traditional nuclear family’ and replace it with what exactly?
This attack on the basic structure of society, and the consequential tragedy for children, has been instigated by feminists under the guise of equality.
Fathers retaliate in defence, and are accused as the instigators.!!
Who is right here? NO ONE. It’s a tragedy for all concerned.
Who is wrong? I propose the ones who wish to turn society on it’s head and replace it with unworkable chaos.

Another similar situation concerns PAS. Feminists deny it’s existence, and when fathers engage in PAS, the mothers ’support network’ cannot support them due to their initial denial of reality!!
Selective support only when it supports the underlying political agenda!
That’s typical irresponsible feminist thinking for you!

The outmoded argument of domestic violence in marriage holds no water. According to Stats Canada, An estimated 7% of women and 6% of men representing 653,000 women and 546,000 men in a current or previous spousal relationship encountered spousal violence during the five years up to and including 2004, according to a comprehensive Statistics Canada report on family violence. Look it up yourself: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/Daily/English/050714/d050714a.htm.

In popular culture, men get a bad blow as they are portrayed as simpletons, deadbeats, pedophiles, rapists, and wife beaters who wear “wife beater” shirts stained with ketchup. Today, men are just female side-kicks on TV commercials bobbing their heads in the background. Can we say also say that in popular culture women are prostitutes and gold-diggers? Do you agree with this? Obviously, not, so why should men?

You need to separate fiction from fact and realize that most men and women are decent people. We don’t live in the 60’s anymore. Stop propagating such nonsense and stop identifying with urban myths. Maybe it’s time to close up old-fashioned feminism and embrace an age of parental equality and responsibility. Be more compassionate and fair to both sexes.

Lastly, you’ll be surprised by how many women are involved in these “father’s groups”. Anyone with a conscience should speak the truth despite what sex is involved. I am an adult child of divorce and I experienced more abuse in the hands of my mother than my father. The stats also reflect this. I hope you love your father because I surely love mine!

Elisa Hayse

Deanna Bravo for writting such a great article. I could not agree more.

In my 20 years work experience as an Educator and Counsellor, I have worked with many children exposed to domestic violence. In almost all the cases that were refered to me (specifically by the Ministry of Children and Families) children were the victims of experiencing their dad’s violence towards their mother. The only time a dad would come in contact with me is when the matter was going to court. Truth hurts and I think it is time for men to take responsibilty! Caring Dad program in Ontario is a great programs for dads who have taken responsibilty for their violence towards their child’s mother. Men who have participated in the Caring Dad programs have reported that taking responsibility of their violence has helped improve their relationship with their child.

I challenge the postion of the Father’s Rights Activists/Supporters who have commented above that domestic violence is mutual. Please reflect on why is it that almost 99% of high profile domestic violence homicides in
BC are that of women who have been killed by their intimate partners? These are the forgotten victims. Can you even imagine what life is like for these children whose moms were shot /stabbed to death right infront of their eyes???? Please reflect and rest your EGO’s!

As the new partner of an incredible father who, after his wife divorced him, lost his children, home and assets, you clearly have never seen the effects of the “womens” movement in action. What might get you to change you mind?

How about this scenario : You have a son you love and who you know is a good person. He gets married and has children. You are a grandmother and love his kids. He gets a divorced. He is relagated to a “visitor” in his children’s lives. He loses his home and lives in a shabby apartment while giving his ex-wife 50% of his net income. His ex-wife continually ignores the court ordered visiting time. He takes her to court. The court informs him they cannot enforce his visitation rights. But if he is one day late on his child support, they will garnish his check so he can’t pay rent. You lose your grandchildren, and have no rights to visiting them. Your son is in financial ruin and may have to maove back in with you to survive. It happens every day to GOOD men and GOOD fathers.

I hope this never happens to you, because then you’ll realize the damage you’ve done perpetuating the stero-type that woman are infantile citizens who deserve special treatments and almost unliminted power in the area of famiy court.

I guess Shahnaz S lives in a feminist bubble and deals with “reported” DV. Men only report about 10% of the time so you won’t find stats from the police on them in proportion to their being battered and abused. When women kill their partners it is often not recorded as DV. Recently Adam Cunningham died from wounds received at the hands of his wife Ellie in Vancouver. The Crown was even wondering if they should proceed with charges given the death of the only witness. I have been in contact with the BC AG to disabuse him of the notion a gender discount is in order. In Edmonton a similar situation occurred recently where a drug addicted woman punched out her partner who fell to the ground and he was kicked further by this woman. He died later in hospital. This will not be recorded as DV. She got 6.5 months for killing a man.

Shahnaz S uses the old canard of children watching DV perpetrated by a dad but neglects to say, given DV is pretty much equal, what the impact is on the children when mom is punching, throwing objects, cursing, yelling, screaming at the top of her lungs, pulls out 4.5 foot rake handles and tries to kill dad, and hits him over the head with a 10 lb jug of water amongst other things. Indeed mom frequently in front of the children when dad is not around denigrates him to alienate the children and create allies creating greater emotional abuse.

You live in a feminist bubble and are in denial. You are ideologically and perceptually blinded by what likely is going on right under your nose. That makes you far less than professional. How many female addicts do you deal with? They are some of the worst bullies on the face of the earth to both their partners and children? They go to the DV shelter to dry out before going back to do more drugs and commit more DV. Some even commit crimes to get money for the drugs while at the shelter. Some do tricks to supplement their habit then go back to the shelter after getting the money and a fix. They feed off the self abuse of their own bodies and take it out on others.

I often hear the term “protective” parent used by the radical feminists in reference to the mom. Statistically the single mother is the most dangerous person to supervise children. You can check the USA stats here. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/stats_research/index.htm. Mothers are the greatest abusers and killers of children by far in the USA and the greatest killers of children, in partnership with their boyfriends in Australia.

Its time to drop the victim persona and be real women. DV is not a single gender issue it is a family issue. Until it is recognized as such not much will change. Until these shelters start treating men not much will change. You practice a form of gender apartheid and a backlash is starting to be felt across the nation.

The federal public service is now 55% female and the Ontario Public Service close to 60%. The pendulum has swung way to far in terms of feminist instigated entitlements and it needs to stop. I am in the forefront of bringing the pendulum back to the centre instead of marginalizing fathers and ridiculing men with feminist mythology as appears in the article and in Shahnaz S post.

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